USD 418 FACILITIES HISTORY — COMBINED INTERVIEWS Conducted by Greg Loving =========================================================== =========================================================== INTERVIEW 1: BECKY GREER Former Principal, Eisenhower Elementary =========================================================== Greg Loving: I guess we'll start at the beginning. When did you become an educator? Becky Greer: Oh, wow. Actually, that was a long time ago. In the early '70s is when I started. So I've had a great run and actually am still working as an adjunct for Wichita State University. Greg Loving: So then, I went to kindergarten at Lincoln, and then went to first grade at Eisenhower. And I think that was the first year that it was in operation. Becky Greer: '96. Yeah, '96. Greg Loving: And my understanding is McPherson passed a school bond around that time and built Eisenhower. Becky Greer: Correct. Greg Loving: Yeah, so at that time, how were you involved? Becky Greer: At that time, I was working for ESSDACK, which was based in Hutchinson — a consortium — and I was working as a professional developer specifically in assessment. I had left the district four years before that to go to work for ESSDACK. They had kind of recruited me, and I thought, "Nice opportunity." So I was actually based out of Hutchinson at the time. When the bond passed and they got the plans going, eventually they opened up — it seemed to me it opened in August of '96 — but in that spring, in February, I was hired. So I resigned my position with ESSDACK but stayed on through, I think, probably around July. But ESSDACK was really good, understanding I was opening a brand-new building and that there were things I had to do. So I kind of traded time and did some things from February into August to get that building open. As basic, Greg, as ordering tables. How many tables do you need in the lunchroom? Greg Loving: And you became the principal? Is that right? Becky Greer: I did. Yes, I was hired as the principal. Greg Loving: And when you left the district, what did you do before? Before you went to ESSDACK? Becky Greer: Prior to going to ESSDACK, I had worked for McPherson — I had been Gifted Ed, a fourth-grade teacher, a second/third-grade combination teacher, a counselor. I had worked as a counselor at Washington. Linda Ferril and I had job-shared at Lincoln when I was Gifted Ed at that point. In other words, I worked for McPherson for a number of years. Felt that support. And what I loved about McPherson was when I wanted to make a change and there was an opening, oftentimes I'd apply for it and be able to get it. But like I said, I left the district — I was a counselor at Washington when I left to go to ESSDACK. And then when the job opened up, I decided that I wanted to apply, and did. Greg Loving: Yeah. And was successful. Becky Greer: Yes. Greg Loving: And the bond — was that a big bond or a small bond? Becky Greer: At the time, it was a large bond. And I'm going to suggest, if you want a lot of bond history, Bob Shannon was the superintendent at the time, and I have his contact information. But he and Perry McCabe — isn't Perry McCabe still around? Greg Loving: Yes. He's on the board. Becky Greer: He would be a good one for the background on that original bond. McPherson at the time was growing. They just didn't have enough space for all students. And you have to remember that Special Education also required space. And Pre-K was coming on board — well, no, it came on board a little bit later. But kindergarten — all-day kindergarten. Eisenhower started as an all-day kindergarten school. And that required space because you couldn't trade out; that room couldn't be used for two half-days. Greg Loving: Right. Becky Greer: So when the whole big picture was looked at, there just wasn't enough classroom space to house all the changing needs of the district at the time. And as you and I both believe, perhaps, McPherson has always — up until recently — supported facilities and good strong curriculum, good strong backing and support of the educational system itself. So I have been really shocked that they've struggled in getting this through. Because it seems to me that you have to maintain your facilities. Greg Loving: Right. Now, do you remember — was that a tax increase when the bond passed? Or is that a question for Bob Shannon? Becky Greer: I think that's a good question for Bob. As a homeowner, I don't recall that it was significant. At times, they would be retiring bonds — and I can't remember, that was a long time ago. 20 years ago. And I think that's a point too. We all think that Eisenhower is a new school? It's 30 years old. Greg Loving: Yeah, 30. Becky Greer: Yeah. Because I was there 10 years and have been gone for 20. Greg Loving: So, the school started. Talk a little about the growing pains. Parents were probably concerned about new schools, change, all that. Becky Greer: You're right. People are anxious anytime change is involved. But I will say that early on, parents recognized that there would need to be a parent organization. And they knew that many of the students would be coming from Lincoln Elementary. And that PTO gave seed money to a PTO organization that was started, I believe, by Terry Russell. She was one of many who organized parents. And so we started from the beginning with: what is it going to take? What do we need to do as parents to support this change for our kids? Boundaries did, in fact, have to be changed. And you're right, that was painful for some who wanted to make sure they went to the new school, as well as others who had that allegiance to other schools that their children were currently attending and didn't want to make the change. But I will say that I think it ended up being very, very smooth because of the partnerships. No school was void of teachers. That was all thought out very carefully in terms of what teachers transferred and what new hires we had for Eisenhower. So it wasn't that we just took all the teachers from one school. Teachers applied to be a part of that, and we didn't drain any one school of all the strong teachers. Even that part was orchestrated. We had parent meetings going into this about, "Here are some structures, here's who's going to be teaching in this school." We had meetings with the teachers about, "What are the rules of our school? What's the culture of our school?" We started as an integrated Special Ed school, so that meant that we were really going to try a different model in terms of meeting Special Ed needs. Many of the teachers signed on to take additional training at KU for the autism program, which set them up for understanding individualization for all students. So that was a strength of Eisenhower as we opened. Greg Loving: Interesting. Well, is there anything else, Becky, that you want to share? Or you think people should know? Becky Greer: I was wondering if you would ask me that. And I would tell you, Greg, that I think McPherson has a long history of supporting education. And I would hope through this bond issue that they would vote in favor to continue that tradition. I am a product — a partial product — of McPherson schools. Both of our children are. I think that McPherson launches children to do two things: to grow wings, but also to have confidence to come back and live there if that's a choice they make. Our family always has a joke that there's always a McPherson connection no matter where we are in the world. Greg Loving: No, that's true. Becky Greer: We find that to continue to be true. And both of our children and myself felt like I was always prepared for whatever adventure or challenge, whether it was educational or career-changing — I always felt confident because of that background, and so did our children. Greg Loving: Right. Becky Greer: And right now, so do my grandchildren, because I have four in the school system right now. Greg Loving: Right, good. Well, that was very interesting. Good talking to you. =========================================================== INTERVIEW 2: CHRIS WIENS Former School Board Member, 2012–2020 =========================================================== Greg Loving: We'll start with your name and basically your time on the board. Chris Wiens: Okay. Well, it's Chris, C-H-R-I-S, Wiens, W-I-E-N-S. And I was on the board from 2012 to 2020. Greg Loving: And my understanding is toward the end, the board did a facilities assessment. Is that correct? Chris Wiens: Yes, we did. So we had a bond issue — and I don't remember exactly what year it was — but during that bond, that's when Roosevelt Elementary got their new addition, and so did Washington and Lincoln. They all got additional space. Like at Roosevelt and Lincoln, it was new gyms, basically, that gave them more cafeteria space and a little bit more classroom space, and then the gym area. And then at the middle school, I think we did carpeting and a few other HVAC-type things. And then at the high school, there were some "hexes" that were pulling away from the foundation. Like in the science room, you could stick your hand through the wall. And there were some issues with the gas lines that fueled those rooms because of all that settling. So the bond project encompassed doing some repair work to the hexes, and there was some other infrastructure — I think there was something with the chillers, if I'm remembering right — at the high school. It was a fairly small bond. And I remember Randy Watson was very nervous about doing this because he said, "It's a small deal and it's something that we can do to kind of patch things and keep things going for a little bit longer." But at that time we also went through and looked at everything several times over the course of the eight years that I was there. We went through the buildings multiple times and looked at where the problem spots were. And like at the high school and the middle school both — people say, "Well, why don't you maintain what you have?" And it's like, well, we did. We got more life out of those buildings, especially out of the high school, than should have ever happened. That building wasn't built to be a hundred-year-old building. And its life expectancy is just over. There's only so much you can do to patch, to the point where you have to replace it. In hindsight, we probably should have done a much bigger bond at that time, but we just weren't quite ready for it and weren't sure that voters would approve it. And we knew that there was stuff that absolutely had to be done. So what had to be done got done through that bond. Greg Loving: Now, what year was this bond? Chris Wiens: Oh gosh, I don't remember exactly. I want to say maybe 2015? 2016 maybe? Greg Loving: So, I talked to Glenda Sims and she talked about the bond to build Eisenhower in 1996. And that was my understanding as the last bond we'd done. So that was a big bond. I actually went to Eisenhower the first year it was open, in first grade. So this would have been kind of midway through that period. Chris Wiens: Right. I'm thinking that we didn't do anything at Washington — or did we do something smaller at Washington because of the accessibility of the older building? It seems like maybe... or even with Head Start? I don't remember exactly. But I do remember that we did those additions at Roosevelt. And then also at Eisenhower, we did a little bit too because there were some classrooms that weren't finished in the original building — when they first built it, they weren't needed. But then because of Head Start going into that building, we had to finish some more rooms. So that was part of that 2015–2016 bond. Greg Loving: Did that bond pass on the first try? Chris Wiens: Oh yeah. There was absolutely no — the yeses compared to the nos was overwhelming support. But also at that time, we didn't ask for anything sports-related. Greg Loving: Was there any mill levy increase? Chris Wiens: No. It did not change the mill levy. It actually lowered people's taxes. Greg Loving: Oh, okay. So, then in 2018, my understanding is you started to look at what ended up being the current plan. Is that correct? Chris Wiens: Yes. Greg Loving: Tell me about that. Chris Wiens: So we hired an architectural firm out of Kansas City. And they came in and did a facilities study, told us what really needed to be done. And then started making proposals of what the bond project would look like. At that time, there was a significant renovation to the high school. I don't believe at that time it was to replace the middle school, but there were some big changes to the high school. And also at that time — for years we've been leasing the college athletic facilities, the football field. And it was about 2018 that the college kept saying, "Hey, we need to stop this lease at some point because we're running out of space as well." Their enrollment was starting to climb and there simply wasn't enough room. And so at that time we started thinking about where we could build a new field and what facilities we needed to get away from the college. And I think that's a key thing that people don't understand — the college has been very gracious for a really long time. But they're at a point where they're growing and they need the space just as badly as we do. Shared services are great until they're not. And we're at that point where it's not a good thing anymore. Greg Loving: Yeah. I played soccer about 20 years ago — I went to high school from 2004 to 2008 — and we played at the field. And my understanding is today, the college has this huge endowment and is trying to grow significantly. Not double — like quadruple. Chris Wiens: Well, and for next year, they're adding flag football for girls. So that's another time constraint that's going to be put on that field. Greg Loving: The high school or the college? Chris Wiens: The college. And so that's going to impact when the high school can practice, when the high school can schedule their games. Greg Loving: Yeah. I think, based on my reporting, a lot of the negative sentiment is around that field. Chris Wiens: Yeah. Greg Loving: The fact that the field was in the bond that was rejected, then built anyway — that left a lot of bad blood. And then on top of that, we had this big rain last year, and then the flooding around the houses. And some people think that was caused by the field changing the drainage. Chris Wiens: Yeah, and you can't convince people otherwise. They think they know, and they don't necessarily know every detail of how all of that stuff went down. Even myself, I don't know all of that. Of course, I don't pay as much attention anymore because I don't have to. But I can tell you — I've worked in Human Resources for 30 years and I've been on the recruiting end for a really long time. And the appearance of our schools matters to people when they decide whether they want to live in McPherson or not. And if we don't do something soon — I mean, our population is not growing. McPherson never has had big spikes in population growth and it probably never will. But if we don't do something with our schools soon, we're going to lose even more enrollment and we're going to lose families from this community because our schools aren't up to snuff. And that's going to hurt our industry. And nine dollars a month is not that big a deal. You can cut out a Starbucks run on nine dollars a month. Greg Loving: So in 2018, why did the board choose to wait? Chris Wiens: I don't know that we were quite ready yet. The architectural firm that we chose to go with — and this is just my personal opinion — I don't feel like they did their job. There was supposed to be a PR person that really helped us sell this bond, and that didn't happen. And I think there's a whole lot of other things that played into the failure of the bond the first time around. One, people still had a lot of animosity about the whole COVID situation, how COVID was handled. People don't understand that capital improvement money is different from the general budget. And there was a lot of complaining about salary increases for administration and teachers, like, "We have to pay our teachers before we can build anything." But you can't use capital improvement money for salaries. I just think a lot of things, with just some better communication, could have been handled differently. And then the general political climate — people have just been so distrusting of public officials now. And that hurts my heart because I was on that board for eight years and gave it 100%. And learned a lot. And I saw the big picture all the time. People are just picking little pieces out of things. They're not seeing the big picture. And that's what bothers me the most. If you look at McPherson as a whole — how we got to being the city and the county that we are, one of the most affluent communities in the state with one of the lowest unemployment rates — that's because we had people that could see the future. They took risks and did big things with that money. And people are being so narrow-minded right now that there's no visioning of what could be in the future. It's just living in the moment and complaining about their current situation. People have got to look forward or this community is going to die. Greg Loving: Now, when you looked at this in 2018, it was primarily the high school, correct? Chris Wiens: Yes. And also the middle school. Greg Loving: Was there any conversation about enrollment? The big topic today is birth rates and declining enrollment. Was that conversation happening yet? Chris Wiens: I don't remember that really being a big factor. And again, that was before COVID. A lot of people have pulled out of the district since then for various reasons. So in 2018, that wasn't really a major concern. Greg Loving: Yeah. So it's sort of characterized as — this was primarily about aging facilities. Whereas today, that's all still true, plus we face declining enrollment. Chris Wiens: Yep. The only way to fix the declining enrollment is to attract young families. Greg Loving: Is there anything else you think is important to share? Chris Wiens: Not that I can say with accuracy. It's been a while and I've slept a lot since then. Greg Loving: Yeah. Well, I'll try to find out exactly when this bond was. It's actually news to me there was a bond in the mid-2010s. That's good context. Chris Wiens: Yeah. It was just something that we knew was going to be a temporary fix. It was just going to give us a few more years, a few more miles out of everything. And I just remember Randy Watson talking — almost all the time we had conversations about how good our maintenance department was at keeping things going. We were always very frugal for a very long time with expenses and patched things and had enough talent that could make things last a lot longer than they should have. But the buildings are just at the end of their life. I have a background in historic preservation and it kills me that we're not going to be able to use the middle school as a school anymore. But at the same time, there's only so far you can go without spending hundreds of millions to make that building work. I lived in an old house that was over a hundred years old and there was only so far you can go before it no longer becomes financially feasible. =========================================================== INTERVIEW 3: GLENDA SIMS Retired Teacher, 35 Years in USD 418 =========================================================== Glenda Sims: I am a retired teacher. I taught in this district for 35 years. Greg Loving: Right. Glenda Sims: And I retired in 2015. I had the opportunity to work in four different buildings here in McPherson at various grade levels. So I have seen a lot of change. I actually moved to town in 1981. Kenny took a job at the refinery and I had just gotten married. Greg Loving: Yep. Glenda Sims: And I remember being so impressed when we came to town in 1981 and they showed us around — we had two brand-new elementary schools, Lincoln and Roosevelt. Greg Loving: Okay. Glenda Sims: The people that showed me around were just so proud of the fact that those bond issues passed and they were able to have these new elementary schools. And I found that so refreshing — to move to a community where they really supported their schools. Greg Loving: Yep. Glenda Sims: I graduated from McPherson College in 1983 and did my student teaching at Washington School. Greg Loving: Okay. Glenda Sims: At the time, it was a very old building. That was before anything was added there. And then following my graduation, I got my first job at Lincoln School. At that time it was just a two-unit school, and they hired me as they were making it a three-unit school — that means three teachers in each grade. Greg Loving: Right. Glenda Sims: I remember it was just — I was so impressed. I was so proud because it was like a brand-new classroom, never been in before. Everything was new — cabinets, carpeting. The building was very nice because it was just a few years old. I taught at Lincoln for 13 years. And during that time was when we really had the growth spurt. Those three units quickly turned into four units per grade. And it was so full, they brought in trailers. We had classrooms out in trailers because we were bursting at the seams. And not just at Lincoln, but at the other schools too. Greg Loving: And what grade did you teach? Glenda Sims: I started out teaching fifth grade. And then I taught first grade. At that time we were four units. Greg Loving: Got it. Glenda Sims: And we had third and fourth grade classrooms out in the trailers in the schoolyard. And that's when we said, you know, we've got to do something. So then there began community discussions about what to do. Lots of options were given. One of them was to develop grade-level centers — put K–1 at one building, 2–3, 4–5. The community didn't like that. And eventually it was decided to build Eisenhower. The bond issue passed — I believe first time — and that was in 1996. Greg Loving: Yeah. Glenda Sims: And I moved there. After the building was built, they said each of the existing buildings needed to send a teacher from each grade level. So there was a lot of emotion — teachers trying to decide who was going to go, who was going to stay. And kids too, because kids had to be shuffled from one school to a new school, and deciding where those new boundary lines were going to be. It's much like what's happening now with our elementary schools. Greg Loving: Yep. Glenda Sims: New lines are going to be drawn, staff is going to have to be moved. Greg Loving: And so that was from three to four elementary schools in '96? Glenda Sims: That's right. We had three elementary schools and then Eisenhower was built in '96 and that was our fourth. Greg Loving: Now, were you around in the '80s when the other buildings were built? Like Park or Wickersham? Glenda Sims: Those schools were old schools and were sparsely used. I believe when I first started, Park School was a sixth-grade center — you might want to check that. And the Wickersham building was still standing, but it really wasn't used much. I don't think we housed any students there at the time; I think we just used it for storage. And then there were some kids out at the old Elyria school. I think there might have been something out there, but I'm not real sure. You'd need to check that source. Greg Loving: Right. Glenda Sims: But building Eisenhower was a big deal. And I was one of the teachers that chose to go. It was an exciting experience. The building was shiny and new and everyone just took such pride in it. We made decisions — who our mascot was going to be, what our school colors would be, the discipline plan and procedures. The new was exciting. And not just with the staff, but the students and the parents felt that way too. And then the real eye-opening experience for me was in 2006. After 10 years at Eisenhower, I was ready to go teach upper elementary again. So I chose to transfer to McPherson Middle School, and I taught English to sixth and seventh graders. I moved from a shiny new school to a — I was shocked. I'll be honest, I was quite shocked to see how bad the school building was, and this was back in 2006. Old carpeting, leaking windows, cracked walls, very dim lighting. It was a totally different facility than our other schools. And I will say that the custodial staff and maintenance people did the best they could to fix and clean, but it was an old building. I'm not even sure how old it is. Greg Loving: 1938. Great Depression. Glenda Sims: Right. Buildings aren't meant to last that long. And it takes a lot of money to keep those old buildings going. That was 20 years ago, how bad it was. I taught there until 2015. And then I retired from full-time teaching after 32 years. Then I went back and taught part-time at Washington School for another three years. So I've been at Washington, Lincoln, the Middle School, and Eisenhower. I spent all 35 years of my teaching career here in USD 418. And I can honestly say I wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere else. I've always taken pride in this school district. I've always been so proud of the academic excellence our students have achieved over the years. And it's no small part due to the dedicated teachers and administrators we've had. But it takes community support. Greg Loving: Yeah. Glenda Sims: I fear if we do not start supporting our schools, we're going to lose the excellence that we have. And it goes with the school bond issue. It's time. Times have changed. Our school population has changed. I think the building committee has come up with a good, solid plan. I really do. We need a new high school, we need a new middle school. And it makes sense to close an elementary school. I think it makes really good sense to put that middle school out there at Eisenhower. I think that's the future. Greg Loving: Is there anything else you want to share? Glenda Sims: Well, fact-check me. Make sure I have this right. But gosh, what else would there be to share? I can't think of anything else other than — my own children went through this school district. I have nothing but praise for the education that they received. Greg Loving: You have two daughters? Glenda Sims: Two daughters. And they graduated high school in 2003 and 2005. And both of my daughters teach in this school district. Jamie — my youngest — teaches fifth grade at Washington School. And my oldest daughter, Jennifer, teaches English at the Middle School, just like her mama. And I was in her classroom not too long ago and nothing has changed! The carpet is seriously threadbare. Buckled up. She says she trips over the rug when she's walking across the classroom. Huge cracks in the walls. She still has chalkboards in her room. Greg Loving: Yep. Glenda Sims: It's something else. But both of my daughters teach in the district, and my grandkids all go here. Most of them are at the Middle School. Trey's at the high school. So I'm invested. I'm invested in this district. Greg Loving: Yeah. Very important. =========================================================== INTERVIEW 4: JEFF JOHNSTON School Board Member (approximately 30 years) =========================================================== Greg Loving: You were saying you started after the big bond in '96. So let's start there. And I guess, why did you get involved with the board in the first place? Jeff Johnston: My kind of journey to the board started when my kids entered school. I became interested and got involved with the Site Council at Roosevelt Elementary. The Site Councils had not only staff, but also parents and community members. I became interested in how we operated curriculum, just the overall aspect of instruction. That then led to me becoming a part of the Curriculum Committee of the district. The Curriculum Committee would make frequent reports to the Board of Education — this was in the early '90s. And then there became an opening, and I applied. The board at that time selected me to fill it. As they were going through that process, the board had engaged the community in a facilities discussion. At that point, the district was growing, and we did not have enough space. Over at the middle school, at some of the elementary sites, there were modular units, and we were just running out of space. So the need was to add more building space — an additional elementary — and then some additional construction at the middle school. At the time I was selected, the bond had been approved and construction was just starting. But I'd also been a part of that facilities committee and discussion as to why we needed more space. Greg Loving: Right. And then since that time... Jeff Johnston: Since that time, as I've been on the board and then re-elected, we've gone through several smaller bonds. But this is, in the last few years here, the ask that is a lot larger in focus than what some of those were. Like an addition to Washington Elementary; both of the elementary schools had some additions; there was some work at the Middle School with the upgrade of the kitchen. Those were all a part of smaller bond asks that came during the years I was on the board. Greg Loving: So, do you recall — the '96 bond, was that an increase to the mill levy? Was that an additional tax? Jeff Johnston: Yeah, it did. At that time — I don't remember exactly, it was definitely an increase. I can't remember how many mills that was, but it seemed like it was in the $60 million range to do the things that were being looked at. So it was asking the community for a tax increase. Earlier in the '90s, there was a re-doing of the state funding mechanism. So the district overall, the mill levy had gone down because the state set the standard mill levy that was paid from a local district uniformly throughout, and then the state would distribute that money back. Local communities — our additional was for bond or for Capital Outlay, requests that would be additional to the mill levy. So our community had seen a decrease from when it was fully funded locally to the state allocation. There was a drop. And I think the board at that time thought, "Well, this is a good time to do an ask." There was a decrease, and even with what we were asking for the bond, it didn't equal what the community had been paying prior to the state funding change. Greg Loving: Right. Now, I actually went to Lincoln in 1995 in kindergarten. Then went to Eisenhower in first grade in '96. And that was the first year of the school. Jeff Johnston: Uh-huh. Greg Loving: So, I talked earlier to Chris Wiens, and she talked about a small bond in the mid-2010s — under Randy Watson — that was, if not neutral, maybe even a tax decrease. But sort of minor repairs. You're saying there were several of those? Jeff Johnston: We had at least two. And it seems like there might have been a third one. Each one of those was tax neutral; we were able to ask because either we had come out from under a bond that we had been paying on, or there had been a decrease when the Local Option Budget had come into place. So I know that one of them added the Commons Room at Roosevelt and at Lincoln Elementary. One did improvements for Washington Elementary, which built the classroom section. And then there was one that did improvements for the Middle School kitchen, and there were some items done in the tech lab area. Greg Loving: Right. Jeff Johnston: So there were at least two. And they were mill levy neutral. And they didn't have the bond campaign or the community facilities study tied to them. That was more of the board recognizing a need, and us making the determination of what we thought was best — unlike the big bond of the '90s where the community was very involved. Greg Loving: Got it. Now, the current bond — my understanding is some of the initial studies were done around 2018. How long have you guys been talking about these changes? Jeff Johnston: We started recognizing the need prior to 2018. Before that, within our Capital Outlay funding, we had an aggressive program — particularly with heating and air. We were spending significant Capital Outlay funds trying to keep up with the heating and air needs. The Middle School, Roosevelt, and Lincoln all got new air conditioning and rooftop heating units, all funded by Capital Outlay. And then when the state funding changed again and there was a cutback on what we were receiving for General Fund — which also affected what we could ask for LOB [Local Option Budget] — we had to, in the state law change, start dipping into Capital Outlay to fund personnel: maintenance, custodial, and others. Which started decreasing our ability to spend money on facilities. So we had to cease some improvement projects at the Middle School. The auditorium and gymnasium never did get air conditioning. We just had to stop. And we weren't able to do the air conditioning work we were looking at for the High School. So at that point, the board said: "With this new way of funding, in order to make significant improvements, we're going to have to ask the community for support in the form of a bond." We hired PBA Architects and their engineering group. They came in and did a full evaluation in the late 2010s. That was the preliminary study that DLR Architecture, who worked with us on the three failed bonds in recent years, used as the basis of their evaluation. They had some engineering done, but it was in the late 2010s that we really started recognizing we've got to make some improvements. Greg Loving: Right. So, based on my discussions, the late 2010s discussion was mostly about aging facilities. Recently, it's been more about that plus declining enrollment, lower birth rates, capacity. So this bond is about facilities and capacity both? Jeff Johnston: Yeah. During that time we also recognized — as compared to the '90s where we were growing — we started to see the decline. And another factor was our agreement with McPherson College on athletic facility usage. As the college programs were growing, it was harder for them to accommodate us. So that added into the first bond discussion a proposal for facilities at the high school to address that changing relationship. Greg Loving: And from your perspective, why was the city growing in '96? Jeff Johnston: I think there was probably a combination. Maybe birth rates were higher. But it seemed like the industrial growth was bringing families in. I think there was also more housing available within the community. Then the housing being built in the early 2000s was becoming more expensive. It wasn't until probably the last 10–15 years where we started seeing development on the south side of McPherson. Before that, we were seeing Turkey Creek developing, but those were much more costly houses. I think we started seeing — and the city started discussing — what do we need to do to grow McPherson? From a population as well as a housing situation. But in the '90s, class sizes were larger. A lot of families had three or four children. Some of that is different now; families are smaller. We also started seeing growth in private education. Homeschool families — there were more and more in the early 2000s. And then Elyria Christian, St. Joe, both of those schools were growing. So where before the public school was really the only option, families now had more choices. And then in recent years, when the state law changed about out-of-district students — our numbers this year, we have as many people asking to leave our district and go to neighboring county schools as we do people asking to come in. So we're not really losing net, but the dynamics of attendance are becoming different. We saw it peak, then it stayed steady, and then in recent years, it's been a slight decline. And if you've seen some of the demographic study with the RSP organization, as they project out — unless something significantly changes in McPherson — that will probably just see a continued slow decline. We're around 2,000 students now. Back in the '90s when the building was done, we were at 2,600–2,700. So that's a significant drop. Greg Loving: Right. Well Jeff, is there anything else you want to share, or you think people should know? Jeff Johnston: Well, I think in recent years, one of the challenges regarding information — and I do appreciate the articles you've been writing, you're very informative and very objective — but it's been a challenge to get information out in a way that people understand, whether our need or what we're doing. And social media has a tendency to not put forward a complete story. In the 30 years I've been on the board, that wasn't an issue 30 years ago. People read the local newspapers. They came to our meetings. We would have an informational meeting and there would be great attendance. And that's becoming harder. I'm pleased with this recent bond effort — the architectural firm we're working with has helped us better manage social media and put forward a message and then engage. And I'm not sure we were prepared to do that on the prior bonds that didn't pass. So I'm encouraged by that. I think it's been helpful to get past the COVID years. That was a difficult time where we were staying home, disengaging, and I think people got out of the habit of connecting with us. Now that looks like it's been improving. But it's still different. We had a meeting last week and there was no one in public attendance. We stream, but that's never quite the same as being right there. Your mom was at the meeting just the other night and it was good to have her there, for MIDC and some ideas. So that's encouraging. We've had this kind of perfect storm of issues. We have facilities we need to address, and we really needed to address financially some of the budget shortfalls in the funding and a need to stay solvent. So that drove the need to close an elementary school. I know you've written about that. But I appreciate your efforts and what you're doing in the avenue of the information you release. I know you have a following that look forward to what you're writing. Greg Loving: Thank you. Well, alright Jeff, with that, I'll end the recording. =========================================================== INTERVIEW 5: RANDY WATSON Former Superintendent, USD 418; Kansas Commissioner of Education =========================================================== Greg Loving: Let's start way back. How did you get into education? Randy Watson: You know, Greg, I'm one of the fortunate people in life that at a very young age — I remember even in seventh grade thinking, "I want to be a history teacher, and I'd like to coach basketball." But I really wanted to be a history teacher. And that's what I did. I went to school at Kansas State and majored in history. Didn't major in education, actually — I have my undergraduate in Arts and Sciences in history, with a minor in political science. Got out of school and taught in a very small school, Tescott, Kansas. Taught everything social studies, coached boys basketball, and got the opportunity to coach girls volleyball too. I'm just lucky because I always knew I wanted to be an educator. And I did it till my retirement. Greg Loving: Very cool. And how did you get to McPherson? Randy Watson: So, I went to Tescott — one of the smallest schools in the state. Greg Loving: Where is that? Randy Watson: It's north of Salina. Then west on Highway 18. It sits between the towns of Bennington — well, Minneapolis — and Lincoln. It's a small 1A high school. I taught there for three years. Actually met my wife — she started teaching there after year one — and we got married. Then I went to Andover, a rapidly growing suburb of Wichita, and taught American History and coached. Then I went to Concordia, Kansas, where I was high school principal in North Central Kansas. And then in 1993, right after our son Philip was born, the job of Assistant Superintendent opened up in McPherson. So our family moved in 1993. Melissa was in kindergarten at the time, and Philip was just born. We raised our kids there and we still live there, even as empty nesters. Greg Loving: Yeah, very cool. I think I moved to McPherson in '92. Late '92, early '93. Randy Watson: Yeah, I was thinking your mom and dad came around the same time. Greg Loving: So then you became Superintendent. What year was that? Randy Watson: That was in 2004 or '05. I was Assistant Superintendent for 12 years and Superintendent for 10 years. Greg Loving: So you were Assistant when the Eisenhower bond passed. Randy Watson: That's correct. I was involved in two bonds. The Eisenhower, the high school, and Park Warehouse — that was all one bundle. And then we did a bond in 2013 that expanded the Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Washington elementary schools. So I was a part of both of those — Assistant Superintendent for one and Superintendent for the other. Greg Loving: Do you recall — the '96 bond, was the property tax increased? Randy Watson: It was a tax increase. And that's interesting how that came about. We had a large community group of about 40–45 people to study the overcrowding, because we were growing so rapidly at that time. Greg Loving: Right. Randy Watson: And we had over 600 kids at Lincoln, which is probably where you went to school. Greg Loving: Yes. Kindergarten. Randy Watson: And so, I don't know if you remember, but we had modular units out on the playground because we had so many kids at Lincoln — in all the schools, but especially Lincoln. So we put together a study group about what we were going to do about the overcrowding. And they came back and said, "You're going to have to add on to the high school — we need a theater, more classrooms. And we think you ought to grade-cluster the elementaries." Take Lincoln, Roosevelt, and Washington and make one a K–1, another a 2–3, and one a 4–5. Then bus kids throughout the town. And so we took that concept to the public in an open forum at the Little Theater at the high school — the only theater at the time. And we had standing room only. The patrons came to the mic and basically said, "No, we don't want this." And I remember Sue Wall, who would later run for the board — her husband Brent owns WR Mill — took to the mic and said, "We're going to have neighborhood schools. We're not going to bus kids around town." And people applauded. So we changed directions and built Eisenhower to create another elementary school and decrease the overcrowding, specifically at Lincoln. Greg Loving: Right. Randy Watson: And at that time we added to the high school what we called "B-Wing" — probably still called B-Wing — a bunch of classrooms to the south of the original building. Then we added the new office. The office used to be in the commons area. The hexes — part of that was the office. And the cafeteria was really small. We almost had a thousand kids at the high school at that time. So we added the theater, the choir room, the band room, the art rooms. All of those were added in that same bond. And a separate vote was what to do with Park School. We were wanting to make it into a warehouse. It had been closed, but we were storing stuff in the original classrooms. The original proposal was to tear it down and build a warehouse. And the community again, in that public session, said, "No, we don't want you to tear it down. You can use it like a warehouse, but we want the front of it to still look like a school." Greg Loving: Right. Randy Watson: So if you drive by Park Warehouse, the front still looks like a school, but the back is all a warehouse. That was a separate vote. Both passed. And then we did that work in the early to mid-'90s to help with the overcrowding. Greg Loving: Was that like an Option 1, Option 2 in the same election? Randy Watson: I believe so. Perry McCabe was also Assistant Superintendent with me at the time, so he may have better memory of that. It was two different votes — you could vote for one or the other, or you could vote for both. They were both on the ballot but separate. Greg Loving: Got it. And then, fast forward. You're Superintendent and the bond in the 2010s — that was a smaller bond, correct? Randy Watson: It was. The original bond that was passed in the '90s was coming off. And we had needs — we were still growing at that time. Some of that was early childhood demands, requiring more space. So we finished that bond and went to a new bond. And that passed — Greg, over 80% of the public voted in favor. Greg Loving: Right. Randy Watson: We did not raise any taxes. We lowered it just a little bit, but it was basically the same as what the other bond was. And I think it was $13–15 million if I remember right. At that time we expanded those three elementary schools. We didn't do anything else that I remember in that bond. But we'd done a little bit of work in the science rooms — the original hexes where you would have had chemistry and biology. We tried at that time to shore up the walls because those hexes were falling apart structurally. We tried to jack up the base and fix the floors where the library is and where all those science rooms were. Greg Loving: Right. So, the story in the '90s was growth. The story in the 2010s was maintenance. And the story today is both obsolete facilities and shrinking enrollment? Do I have that broad narrative correct? Randy Watson: It's just the opposite of what we had in the '90s where we had unlimited growth. You probably graduated around '08 or '09 and had somewhere between 225–250 in your graduating class? Greg Loving: Yeah, that'd be the high end. Randy Watson: My daughter graduated in '05 and she had somewhere in that range. But I would guess the classes now are more like 150. That's quite a difference when you multiply that by each grade. Greg Loving: Yeah. Interesting. Well, Randy, this has been really good. Is there any other topic you think the public should know about? Randy Watson: No, I just think the community's always supported their schools. At least in the time I was there, it was a great time. And we were trying to do what was best for kids. I know they still want to do that. I think we're blessed to have Jeff Johnston and Perry McCabe in particular on the board because they have so much history that can help guide the future, along with other really great board members. The high school — the core of that high school, the hexes — was always a problem because of the way the foundation was built. And that's what was making it difficult to maintain even when I was there. Greg Loving: Good. And my understanding is you left the district in what year? Randy Watson: 2015. I took the job as Commissioner of Education. Greg Loving: You work for the State Board, is that right? Randy Watson: Yeah, that's correct. I was hired in November of 2014, finished out that year in McPherson, and when the class of '15 graduated, I left to take this position. Been doing that for the last 11 years. And just human interest, Greg — we were trying to decide where we were going to live. Melissa and Philip both went off to school and both said, "You know, Mom, Dad, we're never going to live back in McPherson." Greg Loving: Yeah. Randy Watson: Well, they both live back in McPherson today! Melissa teaches at the middle school and Philip is freelancing — he's an animator. So now that means we're going to stay. We have a granddaughter. But I don't spend much time in McPherson even though our home is there, because I'm spending so much time in Topeka. But when I retire, I'll have more time back home. =========================================================== INTERVIEW 6: STEVE SALTER Former Vice Principal, McPherson Middle School (30 years) =========================================================== Greg Loving: I got your name from Katie Walters. And the concept is an article about USD 418 district history — let's talk about facilities through the past to kind of show the electorate that things have changed before. And I understand you were the Vice Principal at the Middle School for quite a while. Steve Salter: 30 years, yes. Greg Loving: I just want to hear from you about some of those changes and what you think is important. Steve Salter: Okay. That building was built in 1939, or they started occupying it in 1939. My family and I moved here in 1971, I think, maybe '72. And when I went to work in that building, it was as it was in 1939. No additions. General maintenance and upkeep, of course, but no big additions. In the back of the building were two double-wide mobile homes. One held a Driver's Ed class, and one held the Special Needs classes. Band was held in the basement underneath the stage. No air conditioning. It got hot in there when you put 50 or 60 kids; it was pretty uncomfortable. The lunchroom was underneath the gym, which is also somewhat of a basement. And you run 500–600 kids through there — it was uncomfortable too by the time an hour-and-a-half lunch hour was over. The city passed a bond issue in the late 1980s, I believe. I can't narrow it down exactly. But they added five or six classrooms, a lunchroom, a band and orchestra room — so those had their own space now, out of the basement. The lunchroom moved out of the basement. They added carpet and a paint job, and took out asbestos. All things that needed to be done. And at this point, that's basically where that building is at. They've changed the carpet and done paint jobs and general maintenance in the last 30 years, but other than that, it's basically the same building as it was in 1990 when the construction was complete. Greg Loving: Do you recall the amount of that bond? Steve Salter: I do not. Central Office probably would have that information. Greg Loving: Did you say you worked there for 30 years? Steve Salter: 30 years. I retired when I was 55. It was time to get out. So I've been retired for the last 22 years. Greg Loving: So if my math's right, you must have started pretty young. Steve Salter: I started when I was about 27, maybe 28. Greg Loving: Are you from Kansas? Steve Salter: I grew up in Western Kansas. Garden City. I graduated from Garden City High School. My dad was a high school and college football coach. He kept moving to larger schools and ended up at the Junior College in Garden City. So that's where I graduated from. Then went to Fort Hays where I got my degree. Taught school for a while up in Northwest Kansas, a place called Sharon Springs. And then interviewed here for the Vice Principal position. At that time, Vern Young was the Principal and Ted Washburn was the Superintendent. And the Central Office was over across from Linnea Park, in that vacant lot where the carnival sets up nowadays. Greg Loving: Oh, yes. Steve Salter: Yeah, that was a grade school/high school type building a long time ago, but that was still there when I moved to town. Greg Loving: And you still live in McPherson today? Steve Salter: Yes. Still live here. Greg Loving: Well, very interesting. I was at the middle school from 2001 to '04. Steve Salter: Okay. Greg Loving: And there was air conditioning. I remember that. I played in the orchestra. So we practiced in the band room in the back. Steve Salter: Yeah. Greg Loving: And the cafeteria was, at that point, where we did gym sometimes. Steve Salter: Right. Greg Loving: And the locker room for the gym was sort of nearby. Steve Salter: Yeah, you're right. It was nearby. Greg Loving: So about the air conditioning... Steve Salter: When I first started working there, there was no air conditioning. And part of the way we dealt with that was, if the temperature reached 83 degrees by 11:00 in the morning, school was dismissed at 1:00. That was a standing rule in the Middle School. And we did that for several years until the bond issue passed in the mid-'80s. Then we got AC and that helped. Big time. Greg Loving: Well, Steve, that was very helpful. That's kind of exactly what I wanted. Do you have any other thoughts or comments you want to share? Steve Salter: Well, this bond issue thing — as far as I'm concerned, it's time something was done. That high school building especially is probably not real safe for people to be in because of the breakdowns and mold and cracks in the ceiling and sewage pipe breaks. It's time. I just really wish it would happen. I support the bond issue big time. Greg Loving: Alright, good deal, Steve. =========================================================== INTERVIEW 7: PERRY McCABE Former Assistant Superintendent (1989–2001); Current USD 418 Board of Education Member =========================================================== Greg Loving: How did you first get into education? Perry McCabe: As a teacher. The regular route. My first job was at Little River in 1970. I taught and coached till '79. Then I was principal there until '85. Then we went to Goessel for three years. And then I went to McPherson as Assistant Superintendent for Business for 12 years. Greg Loving: And what years was that? Perry McCabe: I went to McPherson in 1989. Greg Loving: So you were Assistant Superintendent from the late '80s through the early 2000s? Perry McCabe: Right. In 2001 I took early retirement under KPERS. And at that time the law said I could go anywhere else and get a job, but I couldn't stay in my own district if I was taking early retirement. So that's when I ended up at Haysville. Greg Loving: And you then got on the board of the district. What year? Perry McCabe: I was just re-elected here in 2025. So I was appointed probably in 2023 or somewhere before the election that year. Because I was appointed on the board by the time they had the general election in November. Greg Loving: So, based on your experience, what changes did you see in terms of the facilities? Perry McCabe: Well, when I went there in 1989, they were finishing up the addition on the middle school. That was from a bond passed in the mid-'80s. And then, I think it was around '94, '95, we ran the bond that built Eisenhower. And put the administration offices and the theater and some classrooms on the high school and redid the activity center. And then we also did some work at Washington at that time. And I believe also built the main kitchen onto the middle school. Greg Loving: And then you went to Haysville in 2001. How long were you there? Perry McCabe: Ten years there. Then I thought I retired from Haysville. I say I "thought," because I thought I was done. We were living up by Hutchinson at that time because my wife was the CEO at The Cedars. And I was still working at Haysville so we kind of split the distance. When I was "retired" from Haysville, we went back to the Hutch area. But I had a friend that had worked with me at Haysville that was the superintendent at Buhler. They were running a bond issue and he convinced me to help them with that one. So that ended up being a seven-year stay because I also became the business manager there in the fall of 2011 or '12. And I stayed till 2019. Retired for good and we moved to McPherson to The Cedars. Greg Loving: So then you're back in McPherson. I talked to Chris Wiens — they did some initial facilities studies in like 2018, 2019. Perry McCabe: Right. They had done some stuff, started on that, had a group looking at a bond issue prior to the time we moved back to McPherson. I know they were starting some things but then COVID hit. And that kind of put 'em on hold for several years. Greg Loving: And then there were three failed bonds. And now we're basically back with a new bond on March 3rd. Were you appointed after the last of the bonds or before? Perry McCabe: I was appointed I think before the last bond. But I'm getting a little bit mixed up because I was on that capital campaign group that did the work on the football field. So whether I was or wasn't, I was definitely there. And involved when that one failed. Greg Loving: And then there were two studies, one from the architect and one from the consultant doing the capacity study, the enrollment. And they basically concluded the facilities are old and the enrollment is declining and will continue to decline. Perry McCabe: Yes. Greg Loving: Is there anything else, Perry, that you think is important for people to know? Perry McCabe: Well, I think after the new board was elected and seated in January of 2024, we went through a process with the Kansas Association of School Boards and developed a strategic plan for the district. And then following that, we got into developing information and the need for the bond and that's when we hired IDS as our architects. And they came in and helped with a long-range plan and a short-range plan and had all sorts of community meetings and input, so we could basically see what the community wanted. Greg Loving: Right. Perry McCabe: And so I was there all of that time. And then kind of coinciding with that was the enrollment study. And they kind of came up with the same conclusions that IDS did — that we needed to close a building. Greg Loving: And that would have been after the 2023 election, with the new board seated in January 2024. Perry McCabe: Yeah. That would have been Rebecca Pankratz, Chelsea Bush, Sherri Price, myself, Jeff Johnston, and Bill Grove. And Laura Vanderhoof — she was not up for re-election. She was the only one that was a holdover from the previous two years. Greg Loving: Well, Perry, that's all my questions. Especially the history post-COVID was really stuff no one else shared. So that was good. Perry McCabe: Okay.